End gun licensing all together. No need to have a license to buy a hammer, a knife, a pack of cigarettes, or a case of beer (even though MANY more deaths can be contributed to beer and tobacco than guns). Instant background checks at the time of purchase and gun confiscation once a person is convicted of a felony is the least intrusove and most economically efficient way to allow law-abiding citizens their inalianable right protected by the 2nd Amendment. And harsh consequences to anyone attempting to circumvent the law will also help reduce gun violence.

"a license gets pulled only if laws are broken"... The worst case scenario here is unimaginable.

The slow issuing of gun licenses has become epidemic. Some blame the State but most of the delay lies at the local level. Depending upon the town or city you live in, the licenses are issued promptly or, as in a recent case in Everett, a fellow waited for over a year. State law says 40 days but some folks are waiting 90+ days just to get interviewed, printed, and photoed. Then there is another delay waiting for the local police and the state to do their thing.

This is a politcal problem being caused mostly by local police policy. Some Chiefs just don't want their citizens to be able to use their 2nd Amendment rights. It is time for this charade to stop. We are Americans and should live by the Constitution.

Donal,
Don't comment unles you understand the current mass gun laws. Massachusetts has the most restrictive gun laws in the US. This is not a discussion about our second ammendment but a discussion on Massachusetts policy.

Did you know that issuance of a LTC (License to carry) can be decided by the whim of each local police chief even after satisfactory completion of a mass approved two day gun safety course. I pretty sure the founders didn't imagine this restriction to our constitution.

The "broken laws" you speak of include DUI's and any domestic violence complaints either valid or imagined. In many cases I do agree with these provisions but do not on many others which restrict what type of handguns may be sold in Ma.

If you care to learn more about the most restrictive gun laws in our country follow the accompanying link.

/www.mass.gov/eopss/firearms-reg-and-laws/frb/firearms-overview.html

E

They shouldn't let any one who is on anti depressants or any other mood altering prescription drug have a gun permit either.

More kids in Reading died from Heroin and Opiate overdoses in the last 20 years than the combined number of Reading kids that died in Vietnam, The Gulf Wars, the War in Afghanistan, and traffic accidents combined in the same period. The numbers are not even close. We are in the middle of a drug epidemic. These addicts steal from their own families. When there is nothing left to steal at home they will come after you and your home. I fear that some older man or woman living alone will confront one of these animals while they are desperate and in need of a fix. Nothing will stand in their way of getting a fix so they can stop being sick. The addict does not want to go to jail out of fear he will be forced to get clean and confront addiction and withdrawal. Do not think for a second that out of fear and desperation, that if confronted, they will attempt to eliminate the one witness that is going to put them in jail. As a senior citizen please do not take away my gun. Leave the laws the way they are. There are enough checks and balances as is. Protect yourself this holiday season!

Is it true that a gun shop is going in where Taylor Rental used be on rt 38 near the Wilmington line?

The FID cards do not register guns, only the holders ability to pass a back ground check. The fee is a tax and a revenue vehicle.

Yes, the old Taylor Rental will be a gun store. I've talked to the owner. Nice guy. Should be opening soon. Gonna be great place for people in the area to get reloading supplies, I was told. Not a lot of stores carry that in stock.

Anyway, a good, clean business to have in town.

The anti-gun nuts, with their limited knowledge of Massachusetts gun laws, will be coming out of the woodwork to spew their anti - 2nd Amendment vitriol.

Re: mass gun laws

Yes.

Under the 2nd Amendment we're guaranteed the right to bear arms. However it costs $100 for a gun license in Massachusetts - every six years. ($100/6=$16.67/Year).

So in reality, in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts:
"You have the right to bear arms...for $16.67/year."

Where's the ACLU on this one?

This is a tax on a right which is guaranteed under our Constitution.

Absurdity Alert:
On the other hand, Obamacare will be paying for “free” birth control which is not a constitutional right.

I'm guessing that most, if not 99.99999% of crimes committed with the use of a firearm are committed by unlicensed criminals/whackos with a stolen or brought here illegally firearm. I'm not against licensing, some folks should just not have access to a firearm, for obvious reasons. Proud member of the NRA.

Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety.

So, it's OK to charge $100 carry permit fee so a citizen can exercise their constitutional right BUT.....
Asking those citizens without a proper/valid ID to vote to spend $5-$10 to obtain one is violating their rights and disenfranchising them to boot. Go figure.

Only in a liberals mind.......

Bridget, we're not asking the government to pay for a permit, we're saying there shouldn't be a fee for a constitutional right. There's a difference. There is no fee to take a walk. That doesn't mean the government is paying for our "walking permit".

I for one am all for lifetime permits. However I can not see that it will ever happen. After all they already took the lifetime FID from us do you think they will really give up the extra money they get?
And as for wait time seems like the 40 days is just a goal although it is law. I waited 77 days from the day of picture's and prints to get my class A LTC. I am glad I got it and if need be will pay the cost every 6 years to keep it up to date

Local chiefs have too much power here, my brother after moving to stoneham from Everett had the chief refuse to give him his class A. Medford is brutal too, it's ok for Medford cops to rob banks but god forbid a citizen can carry.

Why are the comments on this site so consistently far to the right? Totally not representative of the population of Somerville.

Boo hoo hoo. I am feeling oppressed because every 6 years I have to renew my license for something that can be used to kill another person in a split second. Poor me...

U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia often takes aim at those who view the Constitution as a "living document" that changes with the times. "It isn't a living document," he says. "It's dead, dead, dead, dead."

And I agree with him. In the case of the 2nd Amendment, the type of arms it guaranties for the militias is a muzzle-loading black-powder riffle, period. Nothing is said about glocks or assault rifles.

One New England state (OK, commonwealth), Massachusetts, has among the most restrictive gun laws in the country. It also has the highest murder rate in New England. Another NE state, Vermont, has among the loosest gun laws in the country. It has the lowest murder rate in New England. Coincidence? Or is there something going on here that we can't discuss.

Someone needs to learn the definition of the word "rate."

No on lifetime licenses.
Yes to increased regulation and deeper background checks, including greater tie-ins with local and state databases and medical/psychological screening.

...and no, I'm not anti-gun. In fact, I just completed fingerprinting for my FID and the LTC permit is in the mail. I'm comfortable with the current system...

There were over 600,000 hunters this season in the state of Wisconsin. Wisconsin hunters became the eighth largest army in the world.That number pales in comparison to the 750,000 who hunted the woods of Pennsylvania and Michigan's 700,000 hunters,all of whom have now returned home safely.Toss in a quarter million hunters in West Virginia and it literally establishes the fact that the hunters of those four states alone would comprise the largest army in the world. That 's why all enemies, foreign and domestic, want to see us disarmed. Disregard some assumptions that hunters don 't possess the same skills as soldiers, the question
would still remain...
What army of 2 million would want to face 30, 40, 50 million armed citizens?
Red tape? Stifle the easy use of guns? I'm afraid this is more sinister than a subtle tax renewal $$. It's another misdirected dodge once again, watch out for U>S>enemies in the U>N> and Washingmachine DC.: http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/untreaty.asp

The title of this article is misleading. I'd go as far as to say dishonest.
Allowing law abiding gun owners to keep their licenses is hardly "loosening" "gun control laws."
Getting an LTC in Massachusetts is no small feat. People with licenses have already been background checked and interviewed by the local police.
A background check is performed each and every time a firearm is purchased at a gun store here in MA.
Discontinuing the practice of making, I'll say it again, LAW ABIDING firearms owners pay a fee to renew every 6 years is a constitutional violation.

Lawbreakers would still have their firearms licenses revoked.
That's not what this is about.

Cat, it's completely constitutional to make permit applicants pay for the reasonable administrative costs of obtaining and issuing those permits, which presumably include costs of the background checks. $100 every six years isn't prohibitive or unreasonable.

A federal judge ruled that NYC permit fees -- $340 every THREE years -- were appropriate, although folks at the Second Amendment Foundation thought otherwise...

I'm a liberal but I'm with the gun owners here. This seems like overkill.

I find most gun owners to be extremely responsible law abiding citizens. The folks you should be worrying about are the ones getting the guns illegally.

What about pepper spray!?

Why do you need a licence you purchse pepper spray?

Who here is part of a well regulated militia?

Bridget B, I don't see anyone expecting the government to purchase their arms for them.

What are you even talking about?

R Gagnon
12:53 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012

Nothing is said about muzzle loaders either. The right to keep and bear arms is a natural right not given us by our government. It is a right of birth to be able to have the tools needed to protect yourself and others against those who wish to do us harm. MA law stomps an our natural right to protect ourselves against criminals AND over aggressive and oppressive government. Individual gun owners insure our freedoms just as much as our military does. Now that Obama uses our military to execute US citizens on foreign soil, how long do you think it will be before they turn their guns on citizens at home? I want to have something to point back at them.

Bravo, R. Gagnon. The right to bear arms is an inalienable right. The right to defend oneself is granted by our creator, not by the government.

Or perhaps your Freedom of Religion permit? Freedom from Soldier quartering?

All in all I'm not upset with having to obtain a permit. I'm upset that by MA law the process is to take no more than 40 days. Mine took 6 months. I know others have been waiting more than 1 year.

Seems to me that if someone has applied to renew their permit in a timely manor, the old one should certainly be valid until the new one is issued, or the old one is taken away via due process. (This doesn't address the issue of getting a new permit in a timely manor, but if the original permit was issued and not revoked, it should be assumed safe for the person to continue to possess arms.)

Justice delayed is justice denied.
The next battle in our fight to protect our freedom given to us by the 2nd amendment, and affirmed by the Supreme Court, will be these "waiting periods" "sorry, we are understaffed" "that will be a fee of $1000" and the like.
The rabid anti-gun nuts in Chicago (where most of these court cases come from) has now come up with a "violence tax" on guns and bullets as the new attempt to "ban" guns.
Sadly America has become a place where people can't mind their own business and are determined to force their views upon the rest of us and to force us to live and think exactly as they do.
If you think of all the sacrifices made in this country over the right to personal and religious freedom it boggles my mind why so many are passive to the dangers of socialism....AKA Liberals.

The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under
the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist
program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without
knowing how it happened." Norman Thomas, 1948

http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quote_blog/Norman.Thomas.Quote.FFB1

Bridget:
Once again, you are 100% wrong. Our forefathers never paid to register their muskets with anybody. You CLEARLY do not understand the difference between a constitutional "right" and a "privilege".

@Bridget Bishop: Please try to put aside your anti-gun biases for a minute. What we have here is a situation where people who are already properly trained and licensed to own guns are being put at risk of fines through no fault of their own.

The law states that within 40 days of applying for a license or renewal, the state must approve or deny the application and issue the license if approved. The law also provides for a 90 day grace period after the license expires. Some applicants are having their license renewals delayed for 6 months to a year! Even if they applied for renewal two months before their license expired, they would fall outside the grace period! By the law, through no fault of their own, they could be fined thousands of dollars, lose their license, and have their guns taken away.

The state is clearly not capable of or willing to adhere to the 40 day issue/deny timeframe in the law, so the solution proposed by this bill is to reduce the state's workload (AND COSTS!) by eliminating the need to renew licenses every six years. There is currently no retraining or retesting requirement when renewing licenses, so the $100 renewal truly serves no purpose and uses up valuable police resources that could be better applied elsewhere. If a license holder has a restraining order placed on them, or are convicted of some crime that makes them ineligible for gun ownership, then their license will be revoked.

I know a lot of people like Bridget who trust our government to always do the right thing and defend the rights of all. How naive. She either has no concern or no knowledge about the absolute power our dear leader is trying to bestow upon himself. She has no clue that he is currently attempting an end run around the 22nd amendment. Think a 3 term president won't happen? If anyone can get that done, our constitutional scholar can. He knows all about how to circumvent the Constitution. The same document he stood before us all and swore to uphold and defend is little more than a speed bump to him. She has no idea how dangerous he is to our Constitutionally protected freedoms and our natural birth rights as American citizens. People who put all of their trust in power hungry narcissists like our current dear leader are the enablers that we may one day have to use our 2nd amendment right to defend from the overbearing government her naivete helped to create.

Bty the same logic one shouldn't have to renew a driver's license either. If gun owners don't object to mandatory driver's license renewal, why should complain about having to renew their gun license?

Comments have been deleted due to violations of the terms of use.

How's this angle.?
We all have and are mandated to have a gun permit. Lets say we are GIVEN it when we registrar to vote for the first time, nice tie in yeah?, then when, IF, you blow it and commit something that makes you a PROHIBITED PERSON to possess a firearm, then and only then do you get hit with a fee. A fee large enough (call it a penalty) to cover the admin fees that it costs to process your court filings and other paper work backing up your NEW prohibitive status.

What do you say to them apples?

I'm serious.

It's a right. You pay when you screw up. It's all personal accountability.
Please tell me you understand that?

You get my drift right?

Spoken like true lib d.

I just read through this article and its entire slew of comments and I'm not surprised that it basically has turned into a bunch of personal attacks. Everybody has a right to their own opinion.

Diana - what I got from what Jason said with his idea was that when registering to vote, you would also then be registered to be ABLE to own a firearm. It would be your choice if you wanted to or not. By your logic, you do NOT want to be able to own a firearm. The only reason I could gather (from what little I know of you and judging by your posts) that you would feel this way is that you don't want other law-abiding citizens to be able to own a firearm. I don't feel that this is fair or ethical. I understand that some people feel uncomfortable with law-abiding citizens being able to own guns but what I don't understand is how you can feel comfortable putting the government solely in complete control of your safety. I honestly (and I mean no disrespect) believe that most of the anti-gun people in this country have an irrational fear of what they don't understand. This holds true to many other facets of life, as well.

As far as the wait times (because that's what this article and discussion was supposed to be about) I personally waited four months for my LTC. I didn't mind as I wasn't in any rush, but I can see how things like renewal wait times could really cause a problem.

ALL Gun Control Laws are unconstitutional and illegal. Read the Dick Act of 1902. It clearly states any attempt to control or limit the right to keep and bear arms is unconstitutional, illegal and, unenforceable. It further states it is your right and RESPONSIBLiTY to keep and bear as many arms as you can afford. Lobbying to loosen the gun control laws won't work but lawsuits challenging their very existence will as there is no way the Dick Act can be appealled nor can it be reinterpreted in matter how you read it, backwards, forward, up-side down or with dyslexia, it was written too clearly to be reinterpreted.

To quasimodo regarding your response to R. Gagnon; I ask . . just because you can read a cook book . . does that make you a chef?) I believe R. Gagnon hits the nail precisly on the head (unfortunately for America). The current regime has no intention of vacating office in four years and MANY of the rights protected by our consitution will cease to exist if past performace is any indication of future actions. I live in Ohio and I sincerly wish good luck to those facing this BS in Mass! There is a difference between Gun Licensing (which should not exist under our Constitution) and a License to Carry. I completely agree that a Carry Permit should come with resonable fees and renewal periods (maybe 5 years). But a license to exercise our RIGHT is completely preposterous. Ben, I agree with what you wrote pertaining to personal attakcs. I too hope that no one harbors any harsh personal feelings and to that I will pray that Diana never finds herself in a predicament that a gun might have been of use to her. Not having a gun is a good thing for a person that sees them as useless. Having a gun myself is something that I cannot imagine, not becasue it makes my genitals larger, but because I live in an area close enough to two large citys in which the "Have-nots" regularly feel compelled to assume that they are entitled to what the "Haves" own. Most "Haves" where I live worked hard and earned what they own and fortunately for us, we can defend and protect ourselves(for now).

Read and think about the Dick Act. . .will you file suit with me?

Every able bodied US citizen is a potential part of a well organized free States Militia.
You are required to show up at the designated places with your weapons and drill if needed, to defend the freedoms from enemies foreign or domestic.
Very clear, provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress.
The National Guard was born in Massachusetts in 1637. The federal recognition comes on the same day as Massachusetts Army National Guard's 182nd Infantry Regiment returned to the state after a one-year deployment in Afghanistan, a fitting coincidence, he said. formed as a Militia first at Salem Green.

@ Dave S.

Over the last few days, the paranos have been coming out of the Patch woodwork.
You wrote,

“I believe R. Gagnon hits the nail precisly on the head (unfortunately for America). The current regime has no intention of vacating office in four years and MANY of the rights protected by our consitution will cease to exist if past performace is any indication of future actions.”

So, how do you think Obama will proceed? Constitutionally, he CAN’T (A reading of the Constitution would help you immensely), would it be only because of a question of time. The only viable possibility is a coup d’état, supported by the US armed forces, as in all the banana republics (which the US has become).

Right Mike, dead on...Thanks
I was after the unorganized Militia department, but didn't know if anyone would grasp that concept.
However this is what our erratic locals don't understand and or play fear on. Untrained rabble with guns ( I endorse fully there should be supervised training as part of LTC ).
But especially confusing at the same time is alcohol involved in dangerous actions everyday such as wrong way driving on interstates. Way more folks have cars & trucks than fire arms. Some have both.
No separate alcohol training is offered for an application for a drivers license until after a serious crash happens. If you look at this, negligent discharge of a fire arm (low) as opposed to accidental head on crashes (high) boating etc, it makes no sense not to train all with these monies and require such in per-licensing. That would do it for me...Unless your drinking and fishing. You have to draw a line somewhere.

@ quasimodo, I get what you are saying but Obama has proven he can effectivly operate outside of the normal restraints without the back-lash that should be occurring. He has pulled rank, utilizing "executive power" more in his first four years than decades of previous Presidents COMBINED. Currently, Obama states that he is not after our guns yet he and Hillary have reopened treaty talks with the United Nations. The UN Arms Trade Treaty will be the first step in global gun control and because it is a treaty, our House of Representatives will NOT have a vote (therefore the American People will not be properly represented). If agreed upon and signed, it will effectivly transfer the power to enforce the treaty to the UN, or in other words, other countries. This is all a slippery slope. Everyone must ask themselves . . . what does the rest of the world gain by controling guns inside of America? Do you have a good answer to that question? I personally think it is not in my best interest to let outside countries weigh in on my rights. This administration pledged a transparent government yet they conduct themselves behind closed doors at every turn. They lost any trust I had and with the Supreme Court looming just two elderly Justices away from being extremely lopsided, I fear the consitution will be horribly mangled. I hope you are correct and I am WRONG.

It's right out of the hand book on how to subjugate the American people.
I still wonder why O whathisname didn't squash the Patriot Act like he said he would...? But it makes sense to keep it for their purposes, as opposed to what it was designed for anti terrorism...
The American military is completely dedicated to foreign theaters, while a secondary military system has been established on the homeland with new and unimaginable powers over the citizenry.
The elected representatives of the American people are rapidly eliminating constitutional rights. 2007
http://www.planetaryascension.net/the%20subjugation%20of%20America.htm

Yes, john I have read and re read it over and over again. Somewhere along the line, you managed to mis comprehend that this is act is subject to alter, interpretation or Appeal. Sorry to burst your bubble, it is NOT. Altering, amending and, appealing any portion of this act is illegal and any attempt to do so is a constitutional obstruction. Sorry, john, re read and bring it to your constitutional lawyer for reinterpreting the result will be the same.

I Will be filing suit agAinst the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and am seeking as co plaintiffs, the N.R.A. and, gun owners of America. It's time to put a stop to this trampling of the constitution. Pick your agenda and tear apart the rules agAinst it. Consider H.R. 437
( first amendment). Agenda 21 ( U.N. forced taxation on a soveirgn nation). u.n./U.S. arms agreement (on the table) designed to curtail private ownership of firearms by limiting sales and confiscation.

Jerry,

Your lawsuit will be ignored because you can't spell or punctuate.

Reverend E. Raleigh Pimperton III

What's the point of arguing with lunatics and neurotics. Boy, Jerry, Gagnon et al., your lives must be a miserable journey.

I think I need to stand corrected here.
I thought everyone who had not yet fled massachusetts bought in to the way the state had seemingly become in some kind of Stockholm syndrome. ( Look it up if you don't know what I mean.) Seroiusly, you all sound as if you would actually fight for your right to bear arms and protect your selves regardless of the legal consequences. You have that right and no one can take it away from you. Unless you let them.
However it doesn't mean you won't be forced to defend yourselves ( again) in a court of law. That being said if you don't exercise that right you lose it. That includes your life.
Diana, I used to teach Karate, self defense and womens self defense. Among any of my students the women who had something "Bad" happen to them were the best fighters. They were fierce and they clearly wanted to hurt the next person who ever wanted to do anything to them like that again. Some of them transitioned into firearms which I encouraged. None of them that I know of have shot anyone nor have they gone out looking for someone to give them an excuse just so they could.
They are responsible gun owners and understand the difference and I can assure you they do not suffer an ego disorder. They also are not afraid because they know EXACTLY what they will have to do if anyone attempts to harm them or their familys.

Here is my point: You live in a very corrupt state your own state govt does not give a damn about you, WHY DO YOU PUT UP WITH IT??

I wonder where you live, gregory, which State? Wherever it is, if you think your State is better, you are indeed delusional.

Sorry for my punctuation, " reverend". Here's something just for you, " Bite me"! Crawl back under your liberal rock so we can later kick it over and stomp on all you miserable worms. . .yeah, I will file suit. Enjoy your night, sleep tight In the knowledge we're here for you, John and Q'modo.

Send money guns and Lawyers right Diana?
You will need all of them to work the corrupt courts in the Commonwealth of Missesscusetts...And what's this "we" thing?
How do you defend your Castle? You can legally in Mass you know. Other States even allow you to "Stand your ground" Why is that? because it's so safe out here?
How do you keep the wolves away from your stuff? Do you just hope yourself safe?
I'll bet you 8 bucks there are a few things you limit yourself when alone. Say late at night, in a parking garage, after a nice dinner, out somewhere unfamiliar, a vehicle break down...Are you one of those potential 1 in 4 lambs out there in the U.S. everyone is fed up with hearing about being threatened or worse? If this is true then that is a shame...Would you deny others safety because you don't care for yours?
I'm thinking with a good number of law abiding peoples threat of deadly force you stand a better chance? Without even that, well then your on your own...
Your not welcome...

There is now a new lawsuit that was brought against the City of Everett yesterday. This will bw part of gun owners attempts to correct at least the practice of intentionally delaying license application approvals. Read here. http://www.comm2a.org/

A lifetime license is only a good idea if they keep on top of each person with a license's criminal record. Doesn't sound probabale in Massachusetts.

I used to legally carry but in my lifetime Ive see to many jerks brandish handguns at people. I no longer carry a handgun and let my permitt expire. Im not really keene on handguns but rifles and shotguns should not need a permitt for. People are too quick short tempered and disconnected in these times for handguns. Roadrage is now so bad people are pulling handguns more than ever. Many people even here in Malden have gotten handguns because they knew or freinds with a polition and no way were they mentally capable of owning one. 2 police cheifs ago they were handed out like candy to all the acting chiefs buddies. With Handguns the State should have full control better yet the government not the buddy buddy system in cities and towns.

@ Joseph a life time licence is good only if that persons health is monitored. At age 50 I started taking seizures and voluntarily turned my gun permit in. All me rifles were sold to a Police Officer from another city. The trouble with a lifetime permitt is where are you going to be 10 years from now healthwise. After taking my first seizure I got very careless and I knew it was time to get rid of everything.

David I hear you.
However you can still load up then prop yourself up in a rocking chair on the porch with a breech 12 GDB shotgun right into your 90's and beyond brother! Of course you might have to move to the hills of Arlington or Tennessee to find just the right porch. You can get a good look as the rest teeter over the Efing cliff>>>
Hell I'm in my 50's and finished my 3rd tour recently all of them as a grunt...EEsshh talk about the shakes....Take your meds,you can do this.
As Rooster Cogburn once said to "lucky red Pepper"...."Fill your hand you SOB!!" And he was in his 70's...http://www.exploresouthernhistory.com/roostercogburn.html

you cannot legislate common sense. You either have it or you don't. there are always going to be stupid people among us who will fly off the handle and hurt somebody. That doesn't mean the rest of us can't be trusted. Most of us can. It doesn't take a firearm to cause a lot of damage. 911 was perpetrated by morons with box cutters killing several thousands and I recall a road rage incident involving a crossbow in Mass. I have had idiots try to crush me with their cars just because I ride a motorcycle. When I drive I don't even make eye contact with anyone even when I am in my truck. BIG Scary Truck. I carry a gun but I don't want to let anyone know I have it. So if I do need to pull it out I won't just be brandishing it. Which would be wrong!
People need to be responsible for themselves and their actions. That used to be the order of the day, the norm. If a chief of police can out of hand deny you your right to carry then he can also grant some moron the same thing just because he can.
When I first got my consealed permit I had a letter of recomendation from a respected detective in my area. The chief in my town could have not been more condesending. "Oh you have a letter do you? Well lets see your bag of peanuts then." I had to suppress the urge to strangle the living S**T out of him and I did get my permit. I know people that he " Allowed " to have concealed permits that never should have. Not good.
The nut cases of late who got ahold of firearms are unregulated.

Gregory Just bad news and reports daily...The fact we are even trading stories & talking on this reminds me of the Carter years x 10...Very worried about this crap. More class warfare at it's worse.
Hard working risk taking purposeful successful, not rich people, marginalized...
Definitely hold on to your weapons.
Somewhere and sometime soon someone will attempt to take them.
Common sense and the American spirit already weakened as you mentioned. Replaced by corruptions lies and questionable financial practices...
It's been tried before in history.
Indeed, definitely hold on to your weapons.
And ammunition.

Just two words..........Newtown CT. ...........wake up and get rid of guns!

The fact is the guns used were registered and legal, but taken by someone else. If someone steals your car and then runs over and kills someone, should the car owner be responsible? Should we ban cars? Should we ban knives since the other day some idiot in China stabbed 22 school kids?
The reality of our existence is sometimes irrational, unpredictable S**T happens.

I think all you gun totten people should be real proud now. Knives are made for many uses, but guns only have one. That young man made it clear what that use is.

I saw this on Facebook this morning, and I think we all would do well read it.

Position 1: If someone at the school were armed, this could have been avoided.
Position 2: If guns were more tightly controlled, this could have been avoided.

My position: People died. Children were murdered. Stand down from your political solution just for a little while. Step off of a platform that will be divisive. Wait for just a little while before you politicise the victims of this senseless violence. Before you harvest this event to fit whichever position you hold, before you brandish the memories of shattered lives like a weapon, before you reduce the humanity to statistics, please - for a moment - let them rest in peace.

We need to mandate every adult without a felony or incarcerated must carry a handgun, or face paying an annual fine. Then crooks will know they gain no advantage by carrying a gun.

To all you people that want to ban guns and take them away from everyone. Do you really think you would be safer then ? You would be in a much more dangerous situations than you are now. Let me try to explain. Do you really think the criminals out there are going to turn their guns in ? Of course not. So now all law abiding citizens have no guns for protection and the criminals have the guns. Remember the criminals have the guns illeagly now and they will not turn them in. Right now before a criminal breaks into a home or attemps to commit a crime on a person he/she has no idea if someone in the house or the person they are about to commit a crime on is armed or not. Take all the guns away and guess what, he/she does not have to worry about that any more. Think about this before you say take all the guns away from everyone.

Wildfires that have been set by insane weirdos that have killed children and ruined lives and property are just as culpable...Guns have to be kept safely stored.
Unfortunately guns are the tools of the lazy everyday schizo...The biggest problem is finding these demented people before they snap and get hold of weapons such as guns or other high casualty weapons. These folks are all around us.

When was the last time you read about a criminal breaking in to the average citizens home and getting shot by the owner??? What are you going to do tell the robber to wait while you open the gun case?????

I say it's time for our society to squash the NRA from controling our paid off congress. Think about it!!!!!!!!! The NRA profits every time someone gets killed with a gun. The NRA loves fruitcakes with guns $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. It's time we fight them back by not voting for anyone who supports the NRA. MAKE OUR SOCIETY SAFER WITHOUT THE NRA.

I haven't heard any news about the NRA sending condolences or aid to the families of those poor inocent children CT. Bunch of yellow back spineless wimps.

Tom....where are ya man, put the granola and the New York Times down and get back here....

Say....just wondering...Do you think Patrick and his Parole Board sent their condolences to the Maguire family?

You know...come to think of it Tom, and you other broad brush painters, who may have voted for Patrick....Did you send your condolences as well....

After all you should be equally at fault if you can tie Politicians to a mentally ill person....no?

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/12/29/mass-cop-killed-career-criminal-parole-despite-life-sentences/

Tom my good Man....got another question for ya!

Let’s say a certain “someone”, not going to mention any names, sent a bunch of weapons down to Mexican Drug smugglers. And then let’s say that certain “someone” was hopeful that those weapons would be smuggled back into the United States so he could blame the American Gun Culture. Buuuuuttttt.....let’s then say that those weapons were used to kill an American Border Agent.

Would that certain “someone” be guilty of accessory to a homicide?

"We regulate cars and ladders more than we regulate guns." - Nicholas Kristov,

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/16/opinion/sunday/kristof-do-we-have-the-courage-to-stop-this.html?hp&_r=0

Let's make it plain and simple. A one person fight killing with a gun should require a life sentence or the death penalty. 50 rounds were fired in CA by another fruitcake who's gun licence expired in 2001.
Any person who aids in the murdering of innocent people should be charged as an accessory to murder. If that means Gov Duval freed a fruitcake that committed murder again then so be it. You'd be charged if you made the dumb decesion.
The gunmaker or seller should be held liable in a murder case. The NRA squashes any such liability. If you drink too much in a bar then drivew and run some innocent person down the bar gets held accounbtable. The difference here is the bar owners don't dump 10's of millions of dollars at the doorsteps of polititions accepting contributions.
Does a simple home owner need an assault rifle and 4 other weapons for the protection of life and property? God the person only has two hands. How many guns can they fire at a petty theif at once????????

The perswon who approved the mother in CT to have an assault weapon at home should be held accountable. Obviously they made the incorrect decesion.

Why don't people come up wityh ways to curb violence and stop the innocent from being murdered with guns instead of hiding behind century old rules. Sounds like the world is changing and gun owners can't change with it.

I agree with the President. It's time for change against the violence in our country. Let's stand together and strengthen the gun laws to ensure only the responsible receive the right to bear arms.

I also agree with Obama and just about everyone else, a ton of things need change...Or just like everything else in our silly courts, enforce the damn existing laws! Your pointing in the wrong direction.
Stop shaking and calm down a bit and think of what some of you are saying.
If you still choose to be a lamb in this world here is your future.
Look at those poor slobs trying to survive in Chicago's mess. Do you know how many kids have been killed there just this year? 107 God bless them, or Detroit, LA, Oakland, Camden, NYC, Newark, Boston,Trenton, DC, or just pick any failed city.
It's real easy for some of you guys all tucked away in comfy relatively peaceful areas to talk about bans? Use your brains and think this out very carefully or it will creep in to your worlds. No one can stop every loon from this madness...Someone is waiting to splatter you soon as they get the chance, just for your stuff. Never mind if there crazy...Whatever, please don't include me or my piece of the world in your emotional ban plans.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/10/03/murders-in-chicago-what-can-stop-the-heartlands-bloodbath/1611679/

PLEASE let me give everyone something to consider regarding Mass shootings. We must start seeing these for what they ARE and not use them as a tool to push gun control. They are acts of terrorism. Don't let your mind form a solid identity of what a Terrorist looks like. Many mass-shootings have been committed by males in a specific age range, perhaps brain-washed by violent video games which desensitizes them to violence and removes them from normal human interaction. Then enthralled by the way the media sensationalizes these heinous acts. Many people choose to take their own lives but given the fabulous way the media covers every aspect of a mass-shooting tragedy (factual or otherwise) there is now a way to REALLY "Make everyone sorry that you are gone". A young man can die a Martyr. It is not the gun but the damaged brain of the shooter that unleashes this evil. If America was under attack by suicide bombers yelling "Praise Allah" would ANYONE be discussing Gun Control and attempting to disarm the public of an effective means of self-defense? Lord help us if the rash of mass-shootings are actually due to "conditioning" by other sources such as foreign terrorists or our own under-handed Government. Those that do not believe the current regime is attempting to disarm America are ill-equipped with the facts and are only repeating what the biased Media spews. They reveal their ignorance and will be lined up like sheep if the country's current direction continues.

Today CNN announced that 57% of the American Citizens are for increased gun control. The NRA stated today that bans on assault weapons must be increased and enforced. A letter was dropped on Gov Duvals desk today asking for the gun permit application period in MA be increased to 16 months with a 24 month renewal period. Also an increase in the application fee for the support of Homeland Security & Drug testing was proposed. A drug test with random testing is a good idea.

To all NORMAL CITIZENS: The Gun permit system is so bad the USA has a no fly list for certain individuals. BUT!!!! According to our laws pushed by gun owners, they have the right to a gun permit.

Ya think the system has to be fixed?????? It's about time we voted out every idiot who made those stupid laws and make people earn the right to bear arms. IT'S TIME FOR CHANGE.

Tom & Dave Both compelling points more must be done. Just a few points to ask, increased fee and drug testing? These funds won't get where there intended.
Reopened the State mental hospitals? The prisons are filled with the unbalanced. Unfortunately they are often abused and no where to turn and treated. The 94 assault weapons ban did nothing to cease these issues.These type situations increased as the mental hospitals where leaned. Couple more points, Why didn't Hitler invade Switzerland? Every citizen was required to own a rifle, still due...Also when does the violence end at these crime scenes? When someone shows up with training to deal with these folks, they either take their lives or someone ends it for them. That madman in Colorado checked out several different movie houses before he picked the one with the least security and any chance of stopping him. The gun system is not great, but the mental heath system is appalling...Chicago has the most restricted gun laws ever and the most murders. Lets contrast this situation with the rest of the country. Illinois is the only state in the country that prohibits concealed carry. As the purchase of firearms has risen steadily and as more states have embraced concealed carry, FBI crime stats have gone down.
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2012/10/30/2012_chicago_murders_so_far_436

The MoM who is a prepper had the problem. This kid had an agenda. That was to take out as many as he could. He must have been sitting hours at a time at his video war games. Geeshes Crypes the children are not in their graves yet and everyone is fighting about gun rights. Boycott the violent video games sue the piss out of the gun Manafactures Everyone here take your medications and let these children rest in Peace.

261,000 Class A Heavy Weapon licenses in the state of MA. What are you people waiting for????????? Is there any need for this many Assault Weapons??? Who do you plan on shooting with these weapons?????? You bet we need our Mental Health issues situations increased. Seems to me a large percentage of gun owners are schizophrenic people waiting for the world to open fire on each other.

IF LICENSED GUN OWNERS STOPPED SELLING GUNS ILLEGALLY WE COULD SAVE A FEW LIVES. TIME TO CLEAN UP YOUR ACT GUN OWNERS, WE'RE POLITICALLY GOING AFTER YOU.

I support Gov Duvals proposed gun law. Buying one gun a month is enough IMO. If gun owners don't like the law under constitutional law they have the right to live elsewhere. We will support them.

Did you see how many Assault Weapon licenses are issued in Plymouth, MA?? Holy Cow!!!! You're asking to get randomly shot at in that quaint community. Are the indians still there :-o

I hear a lot of "Back in the day..." comments before the remarks about where our society is heading.
To those "back in the day..." points, back in the day, I sat in front of a 19 inch black and white TV (when my parents allowed me to) and watched Car 24. Now young impressionable minds are sitting in front of 47" or more hi-def TVs, some with 3D and watching the special effects crews depict extremely realistic looking scenes of gun violence and deaths. Even as an adult who knows the difference between fact and fiction, I cringe sometimes at the depictions of violence and death on TV. Young people are being desensitized to violence and death more today than years past but Hollywood will still churn the stuff out because if people don't want reality TV, they want violent TV. Sometimes, the fiction is so realistic, it can be hard for a young mind to tell the difference between reality and fiction. One big part of the conversation that needs to be had is the importance of not hiring a big fancy TV as a babysitter and emphasizing the benefits of reading a good book.

To the shooter's mother and her love for firearms, I have the same love for weapons as she does. Mine are a bit more primitive like a stick and string, but I can relate to the satisfaction of being able to hit your mark every shot. People who participate (or ever have) in shooting sports can relate.
I don't lock most of my weapons because there is little to no chance that anyone can pick one up and use it without months of hard practice and training. I say most of my weapons are not locked because state law REQUIRES me to store firearms securely locked. Even muzzleloaders are required to be locked. I don't know if CT has any requirements regarding how weapons are stored in a home. I think if any increased regulations are to come of this horific crime, it should start by trying to keep firearms out of the hands of people who should not have them. Not by heaping further restrictions on law abiding people who wish to have them. It appears this shooter's mother knew her son had issues that might not make him a good candidate to carry a gun outside a controlled shooting range. If that was the case, then why were the guns he used on friday morning not secured to prevent him from accessing them at home? I know its little more than Monday morning quarterbacking the mother but responsible gun owners need to who else lives at their address before bring their weapons into the house.

Simple suggestion. I recently purchased a new home in MA. I was required to have the local fire department inspect my home for fire safety before I was allowed to move in. I had to pay the town a fee for the required service.

I will propose to Gov Duval a requirement that upon the issuing or renewal of any gun permit in the state of MA an inspection of such be performed. Gun safety is a requirement by gun owners and should be enforced. The Sandy School shooter may not have had access to his mothers weapons if safety regulations were followed.. The current laws have not worked, so it's time to change them.

How fast polititions realize they will not be re-elected unless changes are made in the current gun laws. Time to hold gun makers and the NRA accountable.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9751588/Connecticut-school-shooting-two-US-Senators-call-for-assault-weapons-ban.html

Already had used a knife to kill. But the thinkers like Deval Patrick let these folks out to kill again.
The Bartley Fox Law will never be enforced
Mandatory sentences will never be enacted
And the Liberal Patricks of the world will continue to place bleeding heart Judges on the bench who let these animals out to kill us
And somehow, law abiding gun owners are responsible for the ills of the world.

Ummmmm....OK

http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2012/12/%E2%80%98dangerous_man%E2%80%99_guilty_quadruple_homicide

The crazy kid tried to purchase a rifle at at a store but was denied...So he killed his mother and took hers...She knew he was a powder keg.
Tim McVeigh killed 20 kids at a day care with fertilizer...The Islamic nuts from Qaeda killed thousands with box cutters? Point is where will you be when your Karma runs out?
The big argument is not so much the fear from crazies run a muck with video fever, but the very people in government you hope to have solve these problems for you...Good luck with that.
Tom you want everyone defenseless in a world of nuts and crazies armed to the teeth. At this point in time most are checked with the threat of deadly force reactions. If the sane are made defenseless what do you think would happen.
Do you think these politicians you put your faith in are not armed themselves? And travel around with people who are? Why are good people, to include women, arming themselves lately? Because it's so safe out here?
You'd be crazy not to think so...Better think this through some more brother...
You are way to trusting or just bitter about something. The State & Feds will not let you build a moat or hide behind sandbags. They want you out of the trenches earning them more tax $$'s for them so they can hire security when they slip out of sight.

Wind Dummy Right now the legitimate licensed gun owner via straw purchases are our biggest problem. The legitimate gun owners are the one selling guns to the crazy people who we are trying to protect ourselves from. If the legitimate licensed gun owner was removed or slowed down, the trail of illegal guns would also be slowed down. It's the gun owners who hide their illegal straw purchase activities behind their right to bear arms BS who are our #1 problem in America. Take out the 1st line of the food chain and the rest will starve.

The system you protect approved the mother of a mentally ill person & taught him how to shoot a weapon, then made the weapons accessible to him. That's where the problem lies. So, who is qualified to get a license is where the repair of your obviously impaired system needs fixing should start.

The NRA, Gun owners and the government have proven the current gun ownership system does not work. So, instead of hiding behind your weapon and out of date rights written century's ago, why don't you get off your lazy rear and help save innocent lives instead of complaining how you're treated so unfairly. Buying more weapons and donating to the NRA will never solve the problem.

Too Many Guns in the Wrong Hands? It's Time To Expose The Lie! http://www.users.nac.net/topgun/toomany.html
Tom I don't own a weapon, I don't support any organizations neo left or right. Just the Constitution. I am a member of the armed forces and have captured and destroyed incredible amounts of arm & munitions used against Americans and civilians in my 20+ years of service. Believe me I would prefer not see another weapon in my life if possible, but it won't happen...Example every Afghan or any in that region owns a machine gun. We don't have machine guns.
You also need to be a dealer to sell guns. Lic gun owners have forms to fill out private for sales. They just go down to the markets
Of course some Americans break the laws, they should be put away. The old thin piece of paper is under rated...
You may have a beef with our Attorney general, President and DOD about arming foreign less friendly nations that have killed Americans.
I do and have supported and defended your rights under the constitution as an American citizen even if your a dick and don't agree with you. That also means American loons as well.
Lazy?? You may lose interest soon, but folks I know work at this freedom thing 24/7.

Wind Dummy 25....Thank You for your service.

My pleasure Who Me, your welcome...
I just wonder if we are just picking sides again because of politics. And you know delightful that is.
This situation calls for more than petty disagreements. If you want to demoralize and mess with a country you go for the kids.
I do believe we can tighten things up without screwing with the Constitution. This was just another mentally disturb, possibly a vidiot... But it has to be stopped.
The cost of securing every school is expensive. Ugly intended people will just go for buses etc eventually. Then arming bus drivers and private security and on and on. Man, involving & praying on kids is the worst...But to make politics on this is over the top...
Mass killings have actually gone down substantially in the last 70 years but this was a tough one and everyone is pissed. I know am for sure...But to blow your nose on the Constitution would be just cheesy and madness in itself.
We need a better plan than rounding up guns like Communists and adding more regulations. We are strangling on regulations enough..
What would happen if the following ever took place and no one was armed to stop this...We maybe being set up for incredible failures. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A58381-2004Sep3.html

William Schnieder was the police chief in 1988. I'd like to hear what he has to say in 2012. You haven't listened so far. The guns that are killing are in the hands of the criminals not the honest gun owner. The criminals are getting them from the honest gun owner :-o. That's what has to be changed.

The United States has done a great job protecting our borders. But, it's time we started protecting those citizens within our borders just like we do for the Afganistan citizens. I bet you the US spent more money on saving the lives of the Afganistans within their own borders than we have in our own country. I agree we must continue to protect our borders, but it's also time we started protecting ourselves within our own home turf.

Our constitition allows the wrong people to bear arms in our country. Maybe it's time we review what was once right at the time it was written and adjust for our own safety and preservation of our children. Nothing is forever & life is not disposable.

Tom...Your kidding? Guns are in the hands of criminals?. I get that. Does the FBI & ATF have this information, you bet they do that's their job. But the courts just let them on out?
Where are our borders? Some in Cal say there are none while folks and Arizona and Texas say there's are clearly marked. Again with the courts...
Some say defending our our borders begins in Afghanistan. Some think training & arming the Afghans defends our borders. We'll see right?
Trying to keep guns out of the hands of crooks and crazy people has been a long long fight. Probably will continue.
Do you think the answer is clamping down on legal owners?
I absolutely agree that straw purchases is an issue. "Let's be honest. If someone wants a gun, it's obvious the person will not have difficulty buying a gun, either legally or through the extensive United States black market." http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html
I think actually locking these home grown criminals up for lengthy stays should be vigorously enforced. Our borders firmed. The mentally dangerous? What can you do with them? The last 20-30 years the latest treatment is let them roam the street till they wind up in prisons. Don't point at the NRA, Point right at appointed judges.http://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/ward-room/Court-Invalidates-Illinois-Gun-Laws-183017841.html

That's right there's more than one problem here. Most of it falls on the laps of polititions. so, when's the NRA going to stop dropping Millions of gun owners dollars on the door steps of these polititions with their so called "A" rating in return for votes to support criminals with guns?. The answer, Elimninate the NRA and you eliminate many paid off polititions in our system who allow criminals to get away with murder. I'm glad we agree :-)
Right now the NRA is leaning toward making radical changes to their own policies due to all the pressure they are receiving. These in our back yard masacres including 9-11 have changed the way we live. The rules and constitutional regulations of our country will need to change along with them. The NRA and all the legitimate gun owners need to lead the way. Believe me, this will all happen over time. Polititions know this and want to keep their cushy jobs.

Hey look Windy Dummy, the NRA supports known Islamic activists living in the USA who are listed on our Homeland Security "No Fly Lists" to buy a gun in our country. So please don't feed me your crying BS regarding the NRA. The NRA's solution is to put a gun in everyones hands and shoot it out. That's the same eliminate the problem with death mentality Adam Lanza had when he slaughtered 26 innocent unarmed people. It's time for change and the American people will fight back till they win. The constitution has been admended 27 times so far. Is time for #28.

Do you think these parents should be allowed to own a gun?????

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/18/student-brings-gun-to-school_n_2324143.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmaing8%7Cdl3%7Csec3_lnk2%26pLid%3D247519

Requirements for a "NON US CITIZEN" below to receive a gun permit in the United States. We've got to be nuts to allow non citizens to bear arms in our country. Go to their country and carry a weapon. You'd be put in jail for life plus some.

•Permanent Resident Alien Card (I-551)
•Foreign passport stamped by the U.S. Government indicating that the holder has been "Processed for I-551"
•Permanent resident Re-entry Permit (I-327)
•Arrival Departure Form I-94 with “Temporary I-551” stamp and holder’s photograph affixed
•Travel Document issued to Permanent Residents (I-327)
•Travel Document issued to Refugees (I-571)
•Form I-94 stamped with one of the following statuses: Asylee, Parolee or Parole, Refugee, Asylum, HP-humanitarian parolee or PIP-public interest parolee

Man there is definitely things we could tighten up as far as legislation and the like. This will take cooperation from gun owners, legislators, Feds and the States. What's interesting according to polls is an overwhelming response about the mentally troubled. Over 85 percent I think I read that right, are concerned about these folks , especially the young , repeating these mass killings regularly. I don't know if the American people want to pay for this. It looks like this is a major part of any deal.

A lot will change in the next few years. The accountability bill will be huge. When companies like Smith & Wesson and the NRA are held accountable for the mass murders & illegal gun activities, the face of gun ownership will change. A case example is: Robert Kraft is being held accountable for the deaths of two young ladies who were drinking in his property at a concert last year. These unfortunate ladied died in a car accident on the way home. Kraft is being held accountable for the fact his security force did not prevent the wrongful death. When this case is finished, it will be used as a legal example for the wrongful deaths of thousands of people via guns. The NRA & gun builders will be on the hook. This bill will force gun builders & gun organizations to filter the 10's of millions of political money in to gun safety and not polititions pockets.

Wind Dummy, That's where the money will come from to fund these initiatives you talk about. I can tell you this, the feds won't be raising my taxes to fund the gun owners hobby. Gun owners will pay the freight. Like it or leave it, but it will happen that way..

.

Tom you make very sound arguments...Personal accountability has to be a partner if all actions you mention are to happen, it has to be a factor. It HAS to...Or we are all sunk...I would like to see the gun people police themselves. Actually have someone put the famous skin in the game right? That won't happen.

Bob Kraft can't baby sit a whole stadium of kids anymore than than big gov can baby sit crazed people bent on random killing... It is impossible for big gov to nanny up everywhere. it would have to go after Hollywood the biggest promoters of violence, won't happen either.
Did the parents of the girls give them access to a weapon (auto) I don't know. But say they did? Kraft wouldn't even be an accessory. If they where under age they knew the rules. I think it's on those tickets crafted by slam dunk lawyers.
Same with sports deaths, Do soldiers at war have the right to sue? The only true negligent beef might be a slip and falls on poorly shoveled sidewalks with public egress etc. Drunk driving is usually on the driver unless the bar is found overwhelmingly at fault.
What big gov can do is get out of the way of business. Give the economy a clear track. These mass killings are rare except during bad economic periods as with violence and crime in general. Better economic times needs to be factored in along with any other proposals... I don't know a whole lot about this Tom but wrongful death is a tough nut to prove. Especially if your wickedly wealthy.

Wind Dummy I will tell you this, Kraft (the company) has been in court and answered the charges. The wrongful death suit will stick and Krafts deep pockets will get emptied a little. It's fact and the precedence will change our society. I understand this is not what gun owners want to hear, but it's they way it will be.

Old Maiden: Did you happen to see the town meeting on CNN last night @ 9pm? Maybe if you educated yourself with what has and will happen with gun control and the 2nd admendment in our country you would be going around calling people an idiot.
The 2nd admendment was written for the owners of Musket rifles, not weapons that can fire 3-5 rounds a second. Remember, the crook who breaks in to your house has more legal rights than you do. You're better off running out the back door than putting 100 rounds in the person. The 2nd admendment won't defend you then.

When Sue Gifford was shot in the head 34 people in the audience had weapons on them. Not one weapon was fired in defence. Why? Isn't that the moment gun owners in America wait for??

Wind Dummy: First: What you will see sooner than later is a complete ban on semi automatic weapons owned by the individual who wants to protect himself. It will be determined that a weapon that can fire multiple rounds per second is not necessary.

The Gun Show loop hole closed in all states.

Background checks on all gun purchases. Right now 50% of all gun sales are private. Private sales do not require a background check.

US Citizenship will be a requirement. The 2nd admendment says nothing about protecting non citizens. The 2nd admendment was written for US Citizens.

You will see the accountability of gun owners stepped up and enforced. Keeping guns unlocked for crooks to steal will become lawful. Only responsible gun owers will be given the right to bear arms.

Background checks renewed every two years. Lifetime permits will become a thing of the past.

In MA the bill for aloowing only one gun per month will pass. Unless none of the MA polititions want to get re-elected.

We can go on and on what the changes will be. Gun owners should prepare for them.

Should all school Teachers, Store Clerks, Mall Police & employees, Sporting event arena employees, Bus Drivers, Cabbies, City & Town employees, College staff & faculty, Movie Theatre employees, Workers at Political Rallies be trained to carry a weapon to protect themselves from a criminal and the innocent in the United States? I would love to hear your oipinion and debate.

I can see these changes coming down Mass Ave...Most I have no problems with for the average legal slob. You may need to run these changes by the bad guys & see what they think about the "Castle Law" Unless your talking home invasions. Most crooks break in when folks are at funerals and such.
You may have a problem with an assault rifle ban Tom, that was already debated and reversed. Most trained folks (with auto rifles not many) don't use full auto or fast trigger pulls anyway unless it's a mad moment (The ammo costs & accuracy). Most rifle guys are more into shooting for accuracy and sport. If your hunting a scoped bolt action rifle or deer slug shotgun is more humane & makes more sense not chasing wounded critters.
I'd go with everyone being trained on weapons with the potential to carry concealed. Rather than lining up lambs. Criminals are pretty much cowards when confronted with equal or better force. It's a proven deterrent.
Trained people with fire arms do not to shoot into crowds. Similar to the loathed "rules of engagement" thang imposed on military. Fortunately for you and all, responsible gun owners do not "spray and pray"
We are close to resolution...Tom try not to be so angry and we can talk more.

http://spectator.org/archives/2012/12/17/god-help-us

Who Me....Solid.

"We are Endowed by our Creator" "With Unalienable Rights" to "Life"

If you believe that you have a right to life because your creator endowed you with that right, (Not Obama or some other feckless Government leader) and that this right is unalienable and thus cannot be taken from you (although it can certainly be disrespected!) then it follows that you have not only the right but the responsibility to defend your life. That is, you have the right and the responsibility to deter to the best of your ability any other person who would take your life from you.

Stop submitting your right to life to the Government. YOU have a responsibility to protect yourself and those you love.

I am a licensed gun owner, and have been for over 40 years. I am also ex-military. I have no problem with certain firearms as personal defense weapons, as long as there is proper training, safety, and control. The first weapon I ever fired was an M-14, an assault weapon, and I have been trained and have used many others since.

There is no practical necessity for any civilian to own an assault weapon - period. In fact, I would expand that to include other types of long guns that are semi-auto, including shotguns. Unless your house is invaded by the Chinese Army, there is no justifiable need. Any - repeat, any - long gun legal in the US should be restricted to either bolt action or single action. That would allow for the legitimate needs of hunters and sport shooters, although I am neither. There is also no practical necessity for any civilian gun owner, including handgun owners, to have a magazine holding 10 or more rounds. If you threaten my life, or the life of another, I will shoot you, but I won't need 10 rounds to do it.

Dave good points...I hope not to see the Chinese army in my lifetime. Or let my kids deal with them...
But I would like to see where our military or police would side up in a civil beef. At the moment I don't see either backing a ban, even though they don't care for crazed civilians packing 30 cal.
I hate to open up this possibility, or side track the CT issue, but why do you think our own Government as well as the UN is so bent on disarming U.S> civilians?
The founders were very worried about a central government...
I don't trust them much either. Hillary is already signing away rights quietly without checking in..

Wind Dummy I'm not angry. I am very mad at our society. IMO gun owners & associations disregarding the lives of non gun owners and trying to convince them to join their coalition. To date, I see no sympathy from gun owners for the massacres of the past. That's all I hear is "I have a right". Well IMO the right should be taken away as the bad apples have proven not to be responsible. 100% background checks will happen. Assault weapons will be banned. License renewals will be more frequent & accountability will fall on the laps of gun owners. Over the years the Tabacco industry has lost their battle with the good citizens of the United States. Huge percentages of their profit goes in to Tabacco awareness & prevention. This is all paid for by the person who chooses to smoke. Not the federal government. The same over time will happen with gun control. Social media will speed up the banning process which will make it easy to pass & enforce. There's too many large industries backing the ban of automatic weapons while the Republican house & senate are hiding for cover right now.

You and I both know there's no need for a weapon that can fire 3-6 rounds per second to defend your home. You and I both know there's no need for the average gun owner to own more than 2 weapons to protect your home. You and I both know the mental health society needs to be fixed. Let's save lives as a country, not arm every fruitcake in the world.

If you haven't noticed the power of social media, AOL has published a list of the House & Senate ratings of the elected officials who propose & ban gun control. Social media controlled this last Presidential election and you know that. Today 57% of the US are for gun control. Polititions (political puppets) are changing their stripes right now. The way I see it, any politition with less than a D rating will not be elected. You and I know 99% of all polititions will do what needs to be done to get elected. Fact: Our own X Senator Brown was one of the largest recipients of campain funds from the NRA. He thinks, but will not end up with Kerry's position in June based on his support of the NRA. The social media world is more powerful than any automatic weapon. Thank god the authors of the 2nd admendment didn't put a ban on us. Let's see what happens.

262 million paid subscribers since June 2012. 3.2 Billion in revenue for 2011. Microsoft purchased the rights in June 2012 for AOL for 1.2 Billion.

Just a few people in the social media world.

Wind Dummy Instead of allowing the average homeowner to own a weapon why not allow Pepper Spray? It doesn't kill. IMO the average home owner has to be nuts to shoot a would be robber. You kill the robber you're going to prison. That's still murder. Defense or not.

A local store owner in Stoneham has a great idea for himself and his employees. He has a can of Raid Hornet Spray behind the counter. That stuff will shoot 25 feet and no bullet proof vest will stop it. Get that stuff in your face and you may not ever see again. IMO that's a great idea. The would be robber will never be robbing anyone again. :-) I told the store owner I like the idea of Hydrofluoric acid in a hand pump spray. Here's one that will shoot a stream 40' http://www.amazon.com/Solo-418-1-Liter-One-Hand-Pressure/dp/B000BX4VXI
Rather than end up in prison for killing a robber it would be better to blind the idiot for life and save the judicial system from dealing with them anymore.

You can even use a windex bottle. :-)

Running Green: What's worse? 3 rounds a second by a bullet that explodes when it enters the body or pepper spray in someones face for self defense.

Dave: What's worse after self defense? A charge of Mayhem or Murder?

The President of the NRA could not even say condolenses to the families of the victims in the Sandy School shooting. He showed no remorse but was shocked.
The line of BS the NRA slung today was typical of them pointing the finger elsewhere in the past. I'm sure after the NRA pointed blame at the media, the media with a stronger arm will join forces with the good citizens to help take the NRA down without blood on their hands.

Just what we need, more guns sold to security guards in schools. I can see every future shooter at a massacre joining forces & being trained by the NRA. Easy access in to a school with the NRA opening the doors for them. Not the answer.

Can you picture the United States eventually looking like a Shopping Mall in Pakastan?

Tom, I have had about enough of your Left Wing Socialist Hate Speech. Not only is it hateful...it is loaded with blatant lies, damning lies.

First, as I have asked in the past, I need to know if you are a young kid sitting at your PC spewing your crap? If so get out of your house and get help.

If you actually are an "adult" then you must really step back from the computer and get immediate help as your mind set goes beyond Left or Right but simply as disturbed.
Please stop posting and get to a Doctor.

Here is the transcript from the NRA press conference.

http://home.nra.org/pdf/Transcript_PDF.pdf

I would hope everyone will take the time to read the transcript.

The NRA called for Police to be stationed at schools, Police.

Having guards may be needed short term until long term solutions can be implemented.

Not sure what's wrong with Police at the schools. The President has armed guards, Congress has armed guards, Airports have armed guards, Wells Fargo has armed guards.

Remorse is something needed if you have done something.

There is nothing that can be done short term to stop school shootings. A disturbed individual who's motivated is unstoppable. Even if so called assault weapons were banned a week ago there are still over 300 million weapons in circulation in the United States.

This issue MUST ALSO include very frank discussions on violent games, violent movies, a failed mental health system, the huge increase in giving kids psychiatric medications and the like.
Failure to do this will fail to go after the root of the problem.

"Who Me" Oh!! the perfect handle.

I don't need help cause I'm against the senseless killing of innocent people by all walks of life. I doubt you support the same. Or at least I hope so. You or I do not have the immediate answers and I wish I did for the good of all. But, I will be dammed if I will sit back and hide behind an admendment or transfer blame to the media & video games. It makes me sick inside when people from the NRA are too proud to step forward and do anything besides spew useless words. The NRA proposed the same Free Training School as they proposed today in 1998 that never happened. Just another flapping of the gums to get the angry people off their back. You ever debate with a gun owner? An impossible task as their belligerent attitude usally leads to verbal threats regarding a gun. Fact :-)

So, if you can, let's be civilized here. Where do you plan on getting the funds to put a trained person in every school? Where does it stop? Movie Theatres? Malls? or Disneyworld? These solutions sound good but, are not practical. The more we listen to idiotic ideas from organizations as the NRA the more we are becoming just like the people we fight against everyday in Iran. Look at yourself and ask who or what you are becoming.

I think the local police chief should also be made the final granting authority on abortions as well as gun licensing. An abortion applicant can submit to an interview and provide references, doctor's notes etc on why she thinks she should be able to have an abortion as well as submitting finger prints and DNA samples for the FBI. When the local police chief gets around to deciding on the matter ( say 40 days but no guarantees mind you) if the woman's abortion license request is granted she is issued a temporary abortion permit, if not there is no appeal process and she must either break the law or carry the baby to term. An abortion license comes in 3 classes : first , second , third corresponding to the latest trimester she may have an abortion performed and though a woman may apply for any class of abortion permit it is entirely up to the local police chief what class will or will not be granted.

The NRA, and the law abiding folks who are in it, are just like the terrorists in Iran....

Keep spewing your Liberal hate Tom....keep spewing it.

Why the local police chief? What are his/her qualifications? Is he(she) God? What make you think that he/she can give an opinion free of his own prejudices? What about just enforcing the existing laws, no "opinions" or "prejudices" from any officials?

On 13 March 1996, unemployed former shopkeeper Thomas Hamilton walked into Dunblane Primary School n the Scottish town of Dunblane armed with two 9 mm Browning HP pistols and two Smith & Wesson M19 .357 Magnum revolvers, all legally held. He was carrying 743 cartridges, and fired his weapons 109 times. Fifteen children died together with their class teacher who was killed trying to protect the children.
Security in schools, particularly primary schools, was improved in response to the Dunblane massacre and two other violent incidents which occurred at around the same time: the murder of Philip Lawrence, a head teacher in London, and the wounding of six children and Lisa Potts, a nursery teacher, at a Wolverhampton nursery school.
The Home Affairs Select Committee agreed with the need for restrictions on gun ownership but stated that a handgun ban was not appropriate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_school_massacre

Just came back from the SQ 1 Mall. Thousands of people there.I saw two security guards armed with one pair of handcuffs and a walkie talkie each. My grandmother could have out run them easily. IMO the mall would have needed 30-50 trained law enforcement just to protect the patrons. I stood behind a guy who purchased 16 boxes of bulletts in the sporting good shop. Couldn't tell you what they were or how many in a box. He smelled of marijuana big time. He coulda spent a couple of bucks on a disposable razor and looked respectable. The poor little female clerk was beside herself just looking the the bullets. I bet you she wet her pants right there. I did say to myself, This is one case where this little innocent girl should be packin for protection a semi automatic weapon just in case.

If a serious background check together with an in-depth psychological evaluation were required for a firearm purchase, I'd bet that a great majority of applicants would be rejected, and that goes for several commentators on this string who argue in favor of less regulations in that department.

Get a life Jon. Obviously you don't have a clue !
In light of what happened last Friday why don't you try thinking with your head instead of with your heart and making irrational, emotional, hateful comments, (typical tree hugging lib). For your information and educational purposes in order to get a gun permit in MA you need to go thru an act of congress with criminal and mental background checks and in most cases a 3-6 month waiting period for the permit to clear the system. People who own and carry a gun "legally" aren't the problem it's the criminal element. When was the last time you heard of a lawfully (permited) gun owner robbing a bank or shooting up a school ?? If a lawful gun owner was around last Friday maybe 28 people wouldnt' be dead !!

I am and gun people I know, are 100% for ALL applications and weapons sales no matter what sale is pending being completely checked out. And take all the time needed for accuracy. I think everyone is on board with this...Except efin criminals and lunatics of course.
Jon what's with the broad brush. If you feel you need to protect yourself you should not have to fear for walking anywhere in this country. That does not make those who need or want protection a "gun nut". I have hot daughters with futures and they will blow your head off if they feel endangered. They are not gun nuts. they are smart and have an edge with wide knowledge of this world. You can not walk in their shoes. And you can't speak for them... Don't even try...
The nuts you are confusing are blowing people away in case you haven't heard...
If you feel your daily world is safe by all means don't worry about it and you'll be fine. Whatever you do I'm sure your confident that you can take care of yourself in any environment. Nice and comfy in your burb somewhere.
Many don't, and have to deal with non Jons that infest this planet.

Wind Dummy your number is innacurate. It's not 100% but 74% of all gun owners are in favor of a background check. I don't think the world has a problem with the 74%. It's the 26% of licensed gun owners that are making the bad name for others. And yes, they are licensed gun owners who are selling guns to the people who do not deserve them. So please, don't blame the government for all these gun problems in our country. The 26% of the owners themselves are the ones circumventing the laws for their own personal & financial gains. As for the NRA!!!! That's all the NRA had to do was become a part of curbing the problem 26% and the population would have been happy. Instead, the NRA invoked protective fear in an effort to increase gun sales in this country. The NRA started a paper war between the Democrats, Liberalists and the Republicans. In the eyes of the NRA war is good as it increases sales. Bad move IMO as they will lose big time.

Wind Dummy, your one of the lucky ones, your girls got to live past 6 years old.

Regardless of gun laws, please read this Christmas message I received from a friend:

Some claim we are a Christian nation, yet we also claim the second amendment to the Constitution gives each individual the right to own guns. Perhaps when we lived in a land where neither an army or navy was strong enough to protect us and therefore we needed a citizen militia to do so, and a land where many people still depended on hunting animals for their primary food supply, that provision in our constitution made sense.

Nelson Mandela gave us a picture of what the Christian response in the modern world is - not guns for protection but truth and reconciliation. At this season the ancient Christmas story tells us that the Jewish people, looking for the Messiah, found not the king they expected to lead them to freedom from Roman dominance, but a helpless baby who would grow to preach about love, forgiveness, compassion, and above all non-violence in the face of danger. Do we even come close to being worthy to call ourselves a "Christian" nation while we still proclaim that assault rifles and large clips of ammunition are necessary for protection?

http://www.wisdomota.com/those-who-surrender-freedom-for-security-will-not-have-nor-do-they-deserve-either-one-benjamin-franklin/

Here's a great movie to watch with your family tonight 12/22/12 @ 8pm on Comcast 107.
http://current.com/shows/fifty-documentaries/93407884_bowling-for-columbine-reveals-americans-are-a-frightened-people.htm

I'm still trying to define Arms. Anybody have a list of what they are?

Let's support the 28th Admendment

We cannot use the Second Amendment to argue against keeping and bearing any weapon, but we also understand the risk this causes in a society with weapons as destructive as ours. Fortunately, we have ways to preserve society and protect the Second Amendment without illegitimately harming the Constitution. When I was in the military I was always taught never to discuss a problem without offering a solution. I will therefore suggest some likely starting points from which to search for the right answer.

Read Below:.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Common sense tells us that no interpretation of any legal text can rightly be read so as to threaten the explicitly stated reasons for enacting the text in the first place. I think the preamble supports the idea that we the people can rein in someone’s claim to a “right” if that right presents enough of a threat to our domestic tranquility, and if the general welfare of our people is in enough danger. The danger posed by powerful weapons controlled by incompetent, careless, or malevolent individuals obviously qualifies.

So what's your case a threat? I have a right to proudly speak for what ever I believe & so do you. The stronger majority will win the fight. In your case it seems to be a bigger gun. In mine, it's the pen. Don't get beligerent cause you're on the losing end.

I bet if you saw me you wouldn't be calling me brother :-o

Who Me? Please put blame where blame is due. Read this before you have a cerebral hemorrhage.

The man who murdered 32 people at Virginia Tech in 2007 shouldn't have been allowed to purchase firearms, but Virginia failed to submit his mental health records to the FBI -- so he passed a background check.

He was in the eyes of the honest gun owner a good guy. Your background check system is flawed and must be changed. Gun owners & those clearly responsible are not qualified to be the care taker for innocent lives. Your track record does not lie. Would you like to go on? The shooter of Gifford falls under the same scenario.

I was close Tom not attempting to spout stats there. Just shouting from my spot on the wheel.
Again folks I know consider their weapons just like any other tool in the chest. They're not running and waving them having shoot out's in bars. Most are professionals & successful and want 0 trouble.
It truly is simplistic and I agree, don't be a statistic to some schmuck or kook who get's the drop on you with a gun or rocket launcher.
The 26% probably do worship at the alter of boom. Anyone for instance, who has ever occasionally attended a ball game, there's always some shirtless weird body painters, not that that's a bad thing...Check those guys at Oakland Raider games? Then the drunks that spoil the experience. Point is...
There is always that small % but that doesn't mean we usurp the laws of the land or stop going to ball games. That carefully crafted Constitution is under rated and has served our nation & people well all these years of freedom.
Tighten things up, sure fine with me we can always do better. Warning it won't be perfect.
Guns are not the entire problem. The same was said about the bow & arrow and the catapult. Same will be said about label pin laser beams.
Be safe, protect yourself as best you can, be smart be vigilant. Someone is depending on you to come home. Keep living keep working or someone will throw dirt on you, protect the kids.
"Gold Guns and the printed word"
Definitely have a Merry Christmas all. You all deserve one for being concerned.

Changing gun laws will do nothing to prevent these type of tragedies. Anyone who has been in law enforcement for the past 3 decades can tell you these are isolated incidents which have more to do with negligence of mental health in this country and what our young kids are watching in promoting violence.

Aside from this event, I think people who go through proper training and are responsible with guns should be able to defend their homes and families against criminal intruders. We are faced with many desperate individuals who may resort to causing great harm because they have fallen on bad times. The drug epidemic is at its worst and this is also why these events happen. It's up to citizens to defend themselves, the police can only do so much. When each second counts, people should be prepared.

Happy Holidays to you also.

Please take your own words "We can always do better" and start shouting opinion at our elected officials, town administrators, police chiefs, mayors and the NRA. Tell them what you want changed & how. Your voice is the most powerful tool in the universe. Make this nation better for your children & grandchildren.

If WE, stick to the word WE, as in "We the People" and made changes together by putting political differences to the side, WE could together as ONE, save the lives of the innocent who pay the ultimate price because WE, cannot stand together.

Don't forget to watch Ch 107 Comcast tonight @ 8pm.

Rodger_ Tom "err" Tom -Roger..?? A shoot Wilco (will comply)>>> Also someone was looking for the definition of ARMS?
Warfare: A. a call to arms against the invaders. B. Military service: several million volunteers under arms; the profession of arms C. A branch of a military force: infantry, armor, and other combat arm D. GRUNT- Ground Replacement Usually Not Trained.
E. Wind Dummy- Paratrooper

I dig "We the people" It's why we have thumbs...
What is it you want to watch? I have RCN more HD, Not Communist cast (kidding Christmas cheer) and a ton of work reports tonight...I can do both...

I will lobby anyone anywhere for a better saner safer world...Within reason of course

An upper limb of the human body, connecting the hand and wrist to the shoulder.

When you read the list of available arms (weapons) I was suprised to see a Man-Portable Anti-Tank Weapon on the list.

Too bad you're gonna miss a good movie. I already made popcorn with extra butter for this one.

I'll find it that's right up my alley! Thanks
MPATW cool...Easy on the buttah it's worse for you than getting shot!

Cheap self defence method http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbqKusv26go

Here's where the NRA is pushing us toward. http://news.yahoo.com/anti-rocket-school-protects-israeli-kids-near-gaza-182247738.html

A good guy with a gun forces the enemy to get a bigger gun.

an earlier post was as follows>
hal

6:01 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012

@Diana,

Sigmund Freud:"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." General Introduction to Psychoanalysis. (1920)

My response to that is > Sigmund Freud also ingested enough cocaine in his lifetime to kill a small horse.

People who bring up the issue of "automatic weapons" really show that they are uneducated on the gun control issue. Since 1934 there have been exactly TWO murders with a legal automatic weapon, one of the shooters was a police officer. It seems most people are not aware of this fact and think automatic weapons are commonly used in crimes, this is completely false. Evidence below....

"In 1995 there were over 240,000 machine guns registered with the ATF. (Zawitz, Marianne,Bureau of Justice Statistics, Guns Used in Crime [PDF].) About half are owned by civilians and the other half by police departments and other governmental agencies (Gary Kleck, Targeting Guns: Firearms and Their Control, Walter de Gruyter, Inc., New York, 1997.)

Since 1934, there appear to have been at least two homicides committed with legally owned automatic weapons. One was a murder committed by a law enforcement officer (as opposed to a civilian). On September 15th, 1988, a 13-year veteran of the Dayton, Ohio police department, Patrolman Roger Waller, then 32, used his fully automatic MAC-11 .380 caliber submachine gun to kill a police informant, 52-year-old Lawrence Hileman. Patrolman Waller pleaded guilty in 1990, and he and an accomplice were sentenced to 18 years in prison. The 1986 'ban' on sales of new machine guns does not apply to purchases by law enforcement or government agencies"
www.guncite.com%2Fgun_control_gcfullau.html&h=5AQH4Y8L4

I would also add this NR to help clear up some other miss information out there...
AR does NOT stand for Assault Rifle, as is commonly believed. AR stands for the original company that manufactured it, ArmaLite. ArmaLite sold their rights to the AR-10 and AR-15 designs in 1959 to Colt. Gas operated magazine fed. It is a different design from bolt action rifles. Both can be scoped out. The bolt actions generally use higher caliber rounds because they are studier built. Civilian AR's models are not designed to use military 5.56 NATO rounds and not available to civilians, it would tear up the barrels...Only the 223 is generally used. But I wouldn't want to be hit by either. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.223_Remington

At the "Gun Rights" rally in Boston yesterday, a survivor of the Tienamin Square massacre spoke. Just watch and listen. He knows first hand about gun control.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=miEmIfhfxuc#!

That link was was so timely and appropriate thanks Splice...Andi It was true in 1775 and now more then ever. We should embrace the Constitution, not pick at it.
There should be no convolution. It's not about hunting or sport...It's about resistance...
Do you want government to fear the people or do you want to fear government? .
Gold, guns and the written word.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/2013/01/20/officials-teen-gunman-kills-inside-home/QeQ1907HP1LmQWFkcbxVrM/story.html
Here some more crazy gun violence.

The FBI estimates that 2.5 Million times per year privately owned firearms are used to DEFEND a potential victim from a violent attack.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSpMSG-F2Cw

@Tom, you sound like the "Surrender Lobby" during the 1980's.

I'm trying get my class a unrestricted in Salem and they have a policy in Salem that's restricted target-hunting and sport only license.